Podcast Transcript

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Hello there and welcome to the
podcast Meet the Musicians.

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I’m your host, James Haywood.
This show explores the question,

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what is it like to lead a
creative life?

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Let me introduce you to today’s
guest, the Australian soprano

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Miriam Allen.
Miriam has had an impressive

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career in the early music scene.
She has sung with the Bach

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Collegium Japan, against
Collegium Vocale and with the

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French ensemble Les Art Florrisants

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She had made many recordings of
Bach’s cantatas and Monteverdi’s

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Madrigals, some of which have
gone on to win awards.

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During this episode she were
told some fascinating stories

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from her upbringing in
Newcastle.

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She had some inspiring tales
from her career and she was full

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of great advice for young
emerging artists.

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So join me as we explore the
creative life of Miriam Allen.

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Welcome to the programme Miriam.
It’s so good to have you on Meet

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the Musicians.
Thank you, James.

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I appreciate the invitation.
In the lead up to this

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interview, I’ve been very
excited because in my early days

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of listening to classical music,
I spent a lot of time listening

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to Liza for his son and John
Elliott Gardner.

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And I know that you sung with
these people and these

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ensembles, so it’s really cool
to be speaking with someone who

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is equally as passionate about
early music, shall we say?

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Yes.
Absolutely.

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That is totally my thing.
Now your concert coming up, I’d

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like to begin there.
Weddings and parties over

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coffee, I believe it’s called.
Now, could you fill the

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listeners in on the back story
behind one of the cantatas?

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You’ll be singing Bach’s wedding
Cantata.

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I I think I remember reading
that the the original manuscript

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was lost, was it not?
It’s based off of coffee, isn’t

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it?
That’s right.

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Yeah.
No, there, the only copy we have

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is a student copy.
Somebody, one of his students

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wrote it out, we think.
We’re not sure.

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It’s absolutely shrouded in
mystery.

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Some people say it was written
when he was in Curtain.

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Some people say it was written
for Ana Magdalena Bach to sing

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herself because to celebrate
their wedding.

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Joshua Rifkin, who’s a great
Bach scholar from the United

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States, he seems to think it was
written when Bach was in Weimar.

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I think any way we look at it,
James, we’re looking at quite an

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early cantata.
And the other piece that you’ll

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be singing is his coffee
cantata.

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And my research tells me that
this is not so much a cantata

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but more of a mini comic opera.
It is much more of a comic opera

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and it it’s very much more of a
sort of a domestic setting.

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It, you know, we’re so used,
aren’t we, to these great big

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grand settings of things like
the B minor mass of the great

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passions and of even some of the
the big cantatas like I’m

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Festival Cantata 80 Cantata 147
had some woods and tartans

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Laban, which is one of my
favourites.

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But they’re big.
They’re big works and they’re

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very sacred and they’re very
holy.

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And this one is much more of the
sort of the domestic setting.

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It’s fun.
It’s a little bit silly.

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At one point, Liskin, the
Soprano character, complaints

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that if she doesn’t get coffee
three times a day, she will die

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like a roasted up piece of goat.
I’m serious.

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That’s the end of one of the
rest of the tubes.

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And Sheldon the father’s name
translates to literally like

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stuck in the mud.
Basically, we’re calling him Old

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Cranky Pants.
Well, it sounds like it’s a a

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lot of fun to sing.
Throughout your career, I’ve

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read that you’ve performed a lot
of Bach and you’ve recorded a

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lot of his cantatas.
What differences have you noted

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between his secular works and
his more sacred cantatas, if you

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have to?
Say, well, I think I, I think

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the main thing is that it’s
actually more similarities than

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differences.
I think because there’s that,

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that underlying intelligence
that we all recognise as being,

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as being Bach has been JS Bach
as being sort of the

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foundational, which so many of
us base our, our love of music

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full stop, let alone our
education.

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I mean, a huge amount of my time
at university was spent trying

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to harmonise corals in the style
of Bach, you know, And so the

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similarities seem to to be
there.

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He, you know, for example, when
we’re talking about Cantata 202,

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the wedding cantata, he very
rarely strays away from genuine

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word painting like he would in
any other situation.

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Instead of it being a biblical
story or, or a holy story or a

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sort of a moralistic standpoint,
he’s writing about mythical

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characters with all the same
kind of energy and intelligence

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that he would write about
anything more weighty or or with

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more gravitas.
And so I think that that sense

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of intelligence is still
absolutely present.

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I think it’s the sense of fun.
Like occasionally he really lets

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his hair down and he has a
tremendously fun time.

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And with their wedding Khandado,
we have that sense of dance

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rhythm that the the last, what
we would think of as a chorale

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where where the soprano sings
basically a hymn tune.

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It’s Ashley Gavotte.
And the the 7th movement is this

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fantastic piece of oboe
obligado, which is absolutely a

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dance.
It is totally get done and dance

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after the after the seriousness
of the wedding.

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And I think that he he goes in
for fun enormously well and with

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just a hint of cheekiness and.
But The thing is, we don’t often

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think of Bach as fun.
Sometimes.

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We sometimes think of people in
suits singing in a church.

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But he he does have a lot of fun
in his music, doesn’t he?

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Tremendously so, and I think the
more you look for it, the more

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you find it.
And there’s cute, clever little

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things written in all over the
place.

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That one of my favourite
examples of that sort of

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cleverness and is in the middle
of Cantata 106, which if I’m

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allowed to have a favourite, is
my favourite.

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It’s actor Tragosh’s Goth’s
site, alabested site.

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God’s time is the best time.
And right in the middle of it,

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the soprano solo has sung this
incredibly exquisite moment.

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But it finishes with a with a
sort of a flourish, almost like

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incense disappearing into the
air.

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And it’s so fun.
It’s so clever and it’s so

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evocative.
And I think we all get stuck

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sometimes thinking, oh, we must
be very low, we’ve got to be

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ever so clever and and and
reverent, sure.

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But I do think fun is in there
still.

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Very good answer, very
interesting too.

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In your preparation for this
concert, what recordings have

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you used as a reference?
That’s a great question and it’s

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funny, I was thinking about this
earlier today because I’m trying

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to memorise it.
It’s time to memorise it all.

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And I’ve got kids here on school
holidays and they’re coming to

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Australia with me and so we’re
packing and there’s all sorts of

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things happening.
And so I’ve been trying to kind

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of just plug my Earpods in and
sing.

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So I know the words.
Basically that’s my the music.

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I find sort of intuitive words.
I have to work a little bit

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harder.
I know some singers are the

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other way around, but I have all
I, I admire so much Carolyn

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Sampson singing and she’s made a
recording with the Bach

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Collegium and I, I’ve been so
fortunate.

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I’ve been to Japan and I have
worked with the Bach Collegium

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and I have worked with Masaki
Suzuki who is an absolutely

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outstanding musician and a
genuine gent, a totally

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wonderful man who is such a
thinker and so beautiful in his

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approach to music.
It’s it’s genuinely an honour to

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be in his presence.
And I think Carolyn’s recording

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is outstanding.
But I also really love Emma

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Kirkby and David Thomas’s
recording, which is from the

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early 80s.
I think it’s from 83, but I

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still love it.
And that’s so it’s just, it’s

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just so fun.
David, I think probably had the

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most enormous fun being Emma’s
dad in that recording.

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They actually share a birthday,
David and Emma, so yeah.

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I would say that we have similar
tastes in in Bach cantata

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recordings.
Imagine we do.

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And Speaking of fathers, you
will be singing with your own

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father in this concert, I
believe.

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What’s it like to to work to
work alongside the man?

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Well, it’s it’s something that I
have literally done since I was

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totally tiny.
Dad and I were talking about

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this the other day and we think
I was about 6 when I joined the

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cathedral choir in Newcastle,
where I grew up, and my dad was

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already singing in the choir.
He’d been there for a few years

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already and it was just kind of
the thing that we did together.

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It’s what the family did.
We all sang.

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Everybody had to sing.
My parents insisted on a couple

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of things, choral singing,
learning to play the piano and

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then learning at least one other
instrument, and all three of us

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did.
We did that.

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We learned all sorts of things.
We made an absolute racket and I

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really hope the neighbours still
like me.

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We were so noisy and but that
was it.

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Everybody sang and we would go
and sing and that’s, that’s what

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we did.
Since becoming sort of a more

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serious music student, when I,
when I went to the

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Conservatorium in Newcastle
where dad was actually a

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professor in singing, it became
a bit more of a collaboration.

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It was obviously a little bit
tricky having a parent in your

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own department.
That’s a little bit spicy.

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And so I had to take my singing
lessons outside of the

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department in order to make sure
that there was always somebody

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available to assess me and so
forth.

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So I started to work with dad
very much more as somebody who

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would be a second pair of ears.
And my dad is an outstanding

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pianist.
He’s a beautiful musician.

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And so he would always accompany
me and he’d play for all my

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recitals and all my auditions
and, and still to this day when

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I go home, it’s usually stick a
stack of music on his piano and

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say, righto Chris, off we go.
And it’s we talk about music all

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the time.
We sing to each other.

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We, we share ideas.
We talk about students a lot.

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We talk about things that have
changed.

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We talk about voice science, we
talk about conferences we’ve

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been to.
And so the work may not have

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looked the same, but it’s
continued and maybe varied

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about, you know, the geography
of the situation we’re in and

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the the point in life that we’re
in.

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I just think it’s hilarious that
dad has to talk about me being a

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teenager in this cantata and
I’ve got my own teenage

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daughters now.
So.

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So I think that she was very
much on the other foot and I

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think he’s rather enjoying that.
Tell me a little bit more about

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the little Miriam that used to
sing at home with her siblings.

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I want you to paint me a picture
of that.

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OK, well, to start with, James,
it was me and 23 boys in the

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cathedral choir.
Yeah, it was, It was

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interesting.
I had long, long braids.

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And I went to ballet a lot,
which was obviously very weird,

201
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but it was absolutely brilliant.
And I was the first girl.

202
00:11:18,160 –> 00:11:21,480
And there were a lot of people
who did not like that at all.

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And it was one of those
situations where, you know,

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people would have a moan and
they’d have a whinge, and they’d

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be like, oh, you can’t have
girls down.

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And yeah, And then I’d usually
do some singing and they’d be

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like, huh, OK, she can stay
fine.

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And then beyond that, we started
to get siblings, sisters joined.

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So my own sister joined, Isabel
joined a year or two after I

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did.
And then various other sisters

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of various boys joined in until
we formed an absolutely

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outstanding mixed treble line
up.

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And one of the greatest joys for
me was singing in the cathedral

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choir.
I had a terrific director of

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music, a man named Philip
Mathias, and Philip LED us

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00:12:03,520 –> 00:12:07,000
through like some sort of
bizarre pied piper of Hamlin.

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He just taught us in a way that
we didn’t realise we were

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learning.
We didn’t realise the depth and

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00:12:12,320 –> 00:12:14,680
breadth of the education he was
giving us, which was

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00:12:14,960 –> 00:12:18,600
outstanding.
The huge amount of repertoire we

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00:12:18,600 –> 00:12:21,280
covered.
Oh my gosh, so much music.

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00:12:21,320 –> 00:12:26,200
And from the absolute, you know,
choral bangers that you and I

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00:12:26,200 –> 00:12:28,960
would probably put up on our pin
UPS as you know, kind of bird

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00:12:28,960 –> 00:12:32,800
and talus and Hal’s and Stanford
and all that, you know, all of

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00:12:32,800 –> 00:12:36,120
the great stuff.
But also he would make us sing

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all sorts of crazy stuff as
well.

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00:12:38,360 –> 00:12:40,080
Some really interesting modern
music.

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I was involved in one of the
first performances in Australia

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00:12:42,720 –> 00:12:45,320
of the African Sanctus by David
Fenshaw.

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00:12:45,320 –> 00:12:47,840
And I remember Philip just
tanning me a score.

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00:12:47,840 –> 00:12:49,160
Go, you’ll be fine.
Off you go.

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00:12:49,600 –> 00:12:53,480
And that sort of, that was the
childhood, that was how we grew

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00:12:53,480 –> 00:12:56,120
up and my siblings were with me.
My brother as well.

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00:12:56,120 –> 00:12:59,080
Jeremy joined when he was, he’s
six years younger than me, so he

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00:12:59,080 –> 00:13:01,600
joined a few years later and we
were all singing.

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00:13:01,680 –> 00:13:03,320
That’s what we did.
That was the family.

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00:13:04,040 –> 00:13:07,880
And there are unfortunately
recordings and photographs of

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00:13:08,000 –> 00:13:09,960
all of us hanging around
somewhere.

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00:13:10,680 –> 00:13:13,480
Probably wouldn’t take you too
long to find out some relatively

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00:13:13,480 –> 00:13:16,560
incriminating evidence.
If you’re enjoying this episode,

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00:13:16,760 –> 00:13:18,360
I would be grateful for your
help.

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00:13:18,840 –> 00:13:21,800
By simply pressing a button, you
can help keep this podcast

243
00:13:21,800 –> 00:13:24,120
alive.
Press like on the Meet the

244
00:13:24,120 –> 00:13:27,960
Musician’s Facebook page and
click Follow on Spotify.

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00:13:28,520 –> 00:13:30,600
Now let’s get back to the main
feature, shall we?

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00:13:38,040 –> 00:13:41,760
One of the things I’d like to
explore with you is classical

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00:13:41,760 –> 00:13:45,920
music is already somewhat of a
niche field, but I find niche of

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the niche’s early music.
So it sounds as though your time

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singing in that choir when
you’re younger was that your

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00:13:53,640 –> 00:13:58,680
first exposure to composers like
Bird and Persil.

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00:13:58,680 –> 00:14:02,440
And where does this fondness for
early music begin?

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00:14:03,040 –> 00:14:06,160
Oh, you’re absolutely right.
In fact, the very first memory I

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00:14:06,160 –> 00:14:09,280
have of my very first rehearsal,
it was Persil.

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00:14:09,800 –> 00:14:13,240
And I remember singing Persil
that very first day and it just

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00:14:13,480 –> 00:14:15,680
that was it that that was that
was the kick off.

256
00:14:16,680 –> 00:14:23,080
We sang all of those sorts of
Anglican tunes, you know, the,

257
00:14:23,120 –> 00:14:25,520
the sort of thing that you would
expect to hear that my husband

258
00:14:25,520 –> 00:14:29,320
sings in the Chapel that’s about
50 feet to my right right now,

259
00:14:29,320 –> 00:14:33,520
which he sings in every day.
And you know, we, we were so

260
00:14:33,520 –> 00:14:39,360
fortunate to have such a breadth
and in that was, was undoubtedly

261
00:14:39,360 –> 00:14:44,800
a huge amount of of early tunes
which just stuck with me and

262
00:14:44,800 –> 00:14:48,840
captured my imagination.
I, I remember sitting around as

263
00:14:48,840 –> 00:14:51,800
a teenager with some of the
other choristers and, you know,

264
00:14:52,200 –> 00:14:55,240
we would for fun seeing Bird for
Five because, you know, that was

265
00:14:55,280 –> 00:14:57,360
a big Friday night in Newcastle
when I was a kid.

266
00:14:58,840 –> 00:15:01,760
In all seriousness, that that’s
the thing that captured my

267
00:15:01,760 –> 00:15:04,280
imagination.
And I’m just so lucky that I got

268
00:15:04,280 –> 00:15:08,200
to sing in a great cathedral
choir with outstanding musicians

269
00:15:08,320 –> 00:15:11,440
and, and that that music was put
in front of us all the time.

270
00:15:12,600 –> 00:15:14,640
I’m so grateful for it.
Can’t tell you.

271
00:15:16,040 –> 00:15:19,080
And at what point did you think
to yourself, yes, this is the

272
00:15:19,080 –> 00:15:21,280
direction I want to take my
life, This is what I want to

273
00:15:21,280 –> 00:15:23,360
study?
When did you have that moment?

274
00:15:24,160 –> 00:15:27,440
Well, I didn’t specifically I
no, that’s actually that’s not

275
00:15:27,440 –> 00:15:29,080
true.
I did really think about it.

276
00:15:29,120 –> 00:15:31,720
I took a gap year before in high
school, in uni.

277
00:15:31,720 –> 00:15:35,280
In fact, I got into university
to become a speech pathologist,

278
00:15:36,360 –> 00:15:39,200
got my place and then at the
11th hour deferred.

279
00:15:39,320 –> 00:15:42,480
I thought, oh, I’m not sure it
means it’s voice adjacent.

280
00:15:42,480 –> 00:15:48,360
It’s pretty close, but I decided
to take a year and think about

281
00:15:48,360 –> 00:15:51,720
it and it really didn’t take
long before I thought I think I

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00:15:51,720 –> 00:15:58,280
might need to be a musician.
OK, so I looked at the time,

283
00:15:58,280 –> 00:16:02,720
there was a course in Melbourne
that was offering a Bachelor of

284
00:16:02,720 –> 00:16:04,840
Music in early Music as a
specialty.

285
00:16:05,840 –> 00:16:08,440
And I thought about it for a for
a few weeks and I thought, you

286
00:16:08,440 –> 00:16:10,680
know what, I don’t want to
specialise just yet.

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00:16:11,000 –> 00:16:14,080
So I did a Bachelor of Music
through the University of

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00:16:14,080 –> 00:16:16,240
Newcastle at through the
conservatorium there.

289
00:16:16,360 –> 00:16:21,800
And as much as I sang, I played.
I was a double bass player a

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00:16:21,800 –> 00:16:25,360
long time ago and I was in the
orchestra and I played in the

291
00:16:25,360 –> 00:16:27,640
pit for operas that I wasn’t
singing in.

292
00:16:27,640 –> 00:16:31,360
And I played in chamber music.
I played music that was written

293
00:16:31,720 –> 00:16:33,520
for me to sing and for me to
play.

294
00:16:33,600 –> 00:16:38,000
And I had an incredibly broad
music education.

295
00:16:38,880 –> 00:16:44,080
But yeah, I know seriously, the
most lucky of lucky times, I was

296
00:16:44,080 –> 00:16:47,560
in Newcastle Con at the absolute
best time.

297
00:16:47,560 –> 00:16:52,640
I had outstanding professors, I
had amazing people in my year

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00:16:52,640 –> 00:16:56,360
and in the years around me and
to collaborate with and it was

299
00:16:56,400 –> 00:16:59,760
genuinely halcyon days, totally
amazing.

300
00:17:00,400 –> 00:17:03,520
But it it’s the music that sings
back to me.

301
00:17:03,600 –> 00:17:07,119
It’s the music that from that
very first choir rehearsal aged

302
00:17:07,119 –> 00:17:11,440
6 till now, early music is the
music of my heart.

303
00:17:11,440 –> 00:17:13,079
It’s the music that comes back
to me.

304
00:17:13,839 –> 00:17:18,520
My dad tells a very sweet story.
And when I was listening to your

305
00:17:18,520 –> 00:17:21,680
podcast the other day, you have
the last Movement of Brandenburg

306
00:17:21,720 –> 00:17:25,520
6 as your.
Yeah.

307
00:17:25,880 –> 00:17:29,240
Good pick up.
Good, yeah, but also good tunes

308
00:17:31,920 –> 00:17:33,920
because the Brandenburg
Concertos.

309
00:17:34,040 –> 00:17:39,560
My dad tells a very sweet story.
We we had a double manual French

310
00:17:39,560 –> 00:17:41,000
style harpsichord in our front
room.

311
00:17:41,000 –> 00:17:44,960
When I grow up I know really I,
I, I get it.

312
00:17:45,320 –> 00:17:47,760
We were, we were really weird.
How?

313
00:17:48,440 –> 00:17:55,840
However, my dad tells me about
him playing Brandenburg 5 and he

314
00:17:55,880 –> 00:17:59,080
also was, for instance, he
played the recorder a little bit

315
00:17:59,080 –> 00:18:01,040
and so he played Brandenburg 4
as well.

316
00:18:01,480 –> 00:18:05,360
And so he tells stories of me
being, you know, months old

317
00:18:05,440 –> 00:18:07,320
under the harpsichord in a
bassinet.

318
00:18:07,320 –> 00:18:09,280
So because of course he didn’t
need his feet to play the

319
00:18:09,280 –> 00:18:11,640
harpsichord, he could bounce the
bassinet with his foot while he

320
00:18:11,640 –> 00:18:15,000
was still playing away.
So the Brandenburg concertos

321
00:18:15,000 –> 00:18:17,320
have a very special place in my
in my heart.

322
00:18:17,720 –> 00:18:22,040
And I think it’s not a
coincidence, therefore, that

323
00:18:22,160 –> 00:18:25,520
early music has ended up being
the the music that sings back to

324
00:18:25,520 –> 00:18:27,040
me.
It’s the stuff I love more than

325
00:18:27,040 –> 00:18:29,360
anything else.
That’s a that’s a really

326
00:18:29,360 –> 00:18:31,160
beautiful story.
Thank you for sharing it.

327
00:18:31,480 –> 00:18:34,720
It sounds like that’s why you
decided to go back to the voice

328
00:18:34,720 –> 00:18:38,320
rather than going more towards
down the instrumental track then

329
00:18:38,520 –> 00:18:40,920
is that?
Yeah, well, also, the truth be

330
00:18:40,920 –> 00:18:43,800
told, I was never as never as
good a bass player as I was a

331
00:18:43,840 –> 00:18:45,560
singer, but I had tremendous
fun.

332
00:18:45,560 –> 00:18:48,080
It was wonderful.
I just feel terribly bad for the

333
00:18:48,080 –> 00:18:50,640
people who had to put up with me
sort of scraping away.

334
00:18:52,160 –> 00:18:57,200
I think it’s really hard to
quantify those early childhood

335
00:18:57,200 –> 00:18:59,640
memories because of course
they’re a long time ago and they

336
00:18:59,640 –> 00:19:01,080
get muddled up and they get
mixed.

337
00:19:02,000 –> 00:19:06,760
But I do have strong memories of
of hearing early music being

338
00:19:06,760 –> 00:19:09,640
played to me on recordings.
My my parents had a fairly

339
00:19:09,640 –> 00:19:15,560
extensive library of vinyls.
And I remember hearing

340
00:19:15,840 –> 00:19:19,920
recordings of early music and
thinking, yeah, I want a bit of

341
00:19:19,920 –> 00:19:22,200
that.
And one of the earliest

342
00:19:22,320 –> 00:19:26,200
recordings I remember listening
to and really it really

343
00:19:26,200 –> 00:19:29,960
capturing me was Emma Kirkby
singing Mozart’s Exhortate

344
00:19:29,960 –> 00:19:33,080
Hubilate with the Academy of
Ancient Music directed by

345
00:19:33,080 –> 00:19:37,160
Christopher Hoggwood.
And I really cherished the day I

346
00:19:37,160 –> 00:19:39,360
was in Cambridge, where
Christopher used to live.

347
00:19:40,160 –> 00:19:43,000
He’s since passed away.
And before he, before he died,

348
00:19:43,000 –> 00:19:45,760
Emma and I actually went round
and had a cup of tea and had a

349
00:19:45,760 –> 00:19:47,400
chat.
And so I feel very honoured that

350
00:19:47,400 –> 00:19:49,520
I got to meet him before, before
he passed away.

351
00:19:49,880 –> 00:19:54,200
But that was the sort of thing
that just that grabbed me and

352
00:19:54,200 –> 00:19:55,400
that was it.
I was in.

353
00:19:56,800 –> 00:20:00,160
And what did some of your
teachers emphasise in terms of

354
00:20:00,640 –> 00:20:03,800
technique when you started
studying the voice in a serious

355
00:20:03,800 –> 00:20:06,600
manner?
Yeah, terrific question because

356
00:20:06,600 –> 00:20:11,120
it isn’t something that I came
across specifically in my

357
00:20:11,120 –> 00:20:13,720
studies.
I wasn’t being trained to be,

358
00:20:13,720 –> 00:20:17,960
quote, an early music singer.
And I’ve come to this distinct.

359
00:20:18,840 –> 00:20:22,360
Well, I’ve come to the
conclusion in my advancing years

360
00:20:22,680 –> 00:20:26,320
that the quote baroque singing
technique, End Quote, doesn’t

361
00:20:26,320 –> 00:20:29,760
really exist.
What and I I wasn’t trained like

362
00:20:29,760 –> 00:20:34,440
that either.
I had the extraordinary

363
00:20:34,440 –> 00:20:36,800
privilege to be a student of
Marie Ryan’s.

364
00:20:36,800 –> 00:20:38,280
Marie was at Sydney Con at the
time.

365
00:20:38,280 –> 00:20:40,680
As I said, I had to take my
lessons outside of Newcastle

366
00:20:40,680 –> 00:20:44,000
because of the problem with
assessing me with a parent in my

367
00:20:44,160 –> 00:20:49,440
my department.
And Marie really got me to be as

368
00:20:49,560 –> 00:20:52,040
open and free with my technique
as possible.

369
00:20:52,040 –> 00:20:56,880
And I think one of the most
precious gifts she gave me and

370
00:20:56,880 –> 00:21:01,280
one of the most outstanding
aspects of her education was

371
00:21:01,280 –> 00:21:03,720
giving me the most flexible
technique possible.

372
00:21:03,720 –> 00:21:07,920
That gave me strength, but
flexibility, allowing me to sing

373
00:21:07,920 –> 00:21:11,000
the music I wanted to sing and
to sing it really well.

374
00:21:11,560 –> 00:21:14,560
I think when it comes to to
focusing on early music, though,

375
00:21:14,560 –> 00:21:18,200
I think it’s very much more a
question of style than it is a

376
00:21:18,200 –> 00:21:22,120
question of technique and about
what you’re willing to

377
00:21:22,120 –> 00:21:27,080
experiment with.
And I felt that the education I

378
00:21:27,080 –> 00:21:31,280
got, particularly from Marie,
has only informed that and held

379
00:21:31,320 –> 00:21:34,600
up the opportunity for me to be
an individual as an artist

380
00:21:34,600 –> 00:21:36,360
rather than to be a copy of
somebody else.

381
00:21:36,560 –> 00:21:40,440
And I’m very grateful for that.
And do you think the reason why

382
00:21:40,800 –> 00:21:46,280
there’s not necessarily a early
music technique quote unquote,

383
00:21:46,440 –> 00:21:51,160
to borrow your phrase, is
because the music itself in the

384
00:21:51,160 –> 00:21:54,920
back of the day did call for a
certain level of improvisation

385
00:21:54,920 –> 00:21:58,600
from the the musician or?
Absolutely.

386
00:21:58,600 –> 00:22:02,560
And to me, it’s one of the
reasons that I love singing rock

387
00:22:02,560 –> 00:22:06,080
music as much as I do.
There was a very different

388
00:22:06,360 –> 00:22:11,320
emphasis and different musical
emphasis on singers in the 17th

389
00:22:11,320 –> 00:22:16,440
and 18th centuries, and that was
that you had a very much bigger

390
00:22:16,440 –> 00:22:21,400
role in making artistic choices
and making decisions around

391
00:22:21,400 –> 00:22:25,760
artistry than we see in the 19th
and subsequent centuries.

392
00:22:25,760 –> 00:22:30,920
Because their musical language
is relatively simple.

393
00:22:30,920 –> 00:22:36,720
It’s like when you have a
palette for to paint and you’re

394
00:22:36,720 –> 00:22:40,520
given primary colours only and
maybe a bit of white and maybe a

395
00:22:40,520 –> 00:22:44,360
bit of black.
And from that you create

396
00:22:44,640 –> 00:22:48,880
everything.
You’re given very specific but a

397
00:22:48,880 –> 00:22:53,520
small amount of information.
And then you, you, you have to

398
00:22:53,520 –> 00:22:57,120
make those decisions.
Your choices are what make that

399
00:22:57,640 –> 00:23:01,360
your thing.
And remembering that up until

400
00:23:01,360 –> 00:23:04,160
the 9th end of the 19th century,
even up until the time of Verdi,

401
00:23:04,360 –> 00:23:08,080
composers were making the music
work for the singer, not the

402
00:23:08,080 –> 00:23:11,560
singer to work for the music.
That’s a pretty recent

403
00:23:11,560 –> 00:23:15,400
construction.
It’s not what we used to rely on

404
00:23:15,400 –> 00:23:18,880
in those days at all, and so I
think we’ve got the opportunity

405
00:23:18,920 –> 00:23:24,400
as early musicians to actually
focus a lot more on what it is

406
00:23:24,400 –> 00:23:27,720
that we have to offer.
As you say, that improvisator in

407
00:23:27,720 –> 00:23:32,280
nature, an understanding of
harmony is extremely beneficial

408
00:23:32,280 –> 00:23:35,920
if you’re trying to do some work
around ornamentation, for

409
00:23:35,920 –> 00:23:39,480
example, or writing cadenzas.
And the knowledge that you would

410
00:23:39,480 –> 00:23:43,040
have been expected to have as a
singer would have been quite a

411
00:23:43,040 –> 00:23:45,600
lot different to what we expect
singers to have today.

412
00:23:46,040 –> 00:23:48,080
I relish that.
I find that a wonderful

413
00:23:48,080 –> 00:23:52,040
opportunity and appeals to my
brain so much I can’t tell you.

414
00:23:53,600 –> 00:23:57,720
Because I read an interesting
book about this by Nicholas

415
00:23:57,720 –> 00:24:01,640
Arnonkour.
He wrote a book, a book on Bach,

416
00:24:01,640 –> 00:24:05,160
Monteverdi and Mozart.
And he said that the composer to

417
00:24:05,160 –> 00:24:09,280
change, to make the change, to
really writing out what he

418
00:24:09,280 –> 00:24:12,880
wanted his musicians to do
specifically, was Bach.

419
00:24:14,200 –> 00:24:19,000
So do you still feel that sense
of freedom singing Bach?

420
00:24:19,000 –> 00:24:22,600
I do because actually Bach still
gives us a huge amount of

421
00:24:22,600 –> 00:24:26,200
freedom we still don’t have.
Bearing in mind, looking at

422
00:24:26,200 –> 00:24:30,760
Monteverdi writing, well, you
know, 100 years earlier, you’ve

423
00:24:30,760 –> 00:24:34,800
got extremely limited vocal,
well, not just vocal language,

424
00:24:34,800 –> 00:24:39,280
but musical language.
They’re writing in very simple

425
00:24:39,280 –> 00:24:44,560
things like quotchets, quavers
and minims, but they don’t

426
00:24:44,560 –> 00:24:46,680
always want you to sing
everything exactly the same

427
00:24:46,680 –> 00:24:47,760
tempo.
They don’t want you to.

428
00:24:47,760 –> 00:24:51,080
They don’t write tempo markings
like we get these days when we

429
00:24:51,080 –> 00:24:54,880
have to fill out, you know, we
get so many lists of things and

430
00:24:54,880 –> 00:24:58,320
even keys that they’re choosing
to write in are somewhat

431
00:24:58,320 –> 00:25:01,560
simpler.
And we’ve seen a huge

432
00:25:01,560 –> 00:25:04,880
development in musical language.
And I think Bach is a real

433
00:25:04,880 –> 00:25:08,480
pioneer in that sense.
He does pioneer that deeper

434
00:25:08,560 –> 00:25:11,800
musical language and choice.
However, I still think he’s

435
00:25:11,800 –> 00:25:15,040
coming out of that that
tradition where the singer had a

436
00:25:15,040 –> 00:25:19,080
great deal of responsibility.
I still think he leaves a lot of

437
00:25:19,280 –> 00:25:22,280
a lot of space for us to
interpret things such as tempo

438
00:25:22,560 –> 00:25:25,520
and about the density of things
like the continuer team, for

439
00:25:25,520 –> 00:25:29,720
example, which really has an
impact on how you hear the sound

440
00:25:29,720 –> 00:25:33,880
and how I as a singer react to
what’s going on around me.

441
00:25:36,240 –> 00:25:40,520
I’d like to return to your
experience as a singer, having a

442
00:25:40,600 –> 00:25:42,400
girlfriend who’s a mezzo
soprano.

443
00:25:42,720 –> 00:25:45,960
He actually, she actually told
me that, you know, she’s, she’s

444
00:25:45,960 –> 00:25:50,720
in this space where she’s not
sure if she’s a lyric mezzo or

445
00:25:50,720 –> 00:25:54,120
dramatic mezzo.
So tell me about your experience

446
00:25:54,120 –> 00:25:58,240
with that sort of journey.
How did you come to to fall upon

447
00:25:58,240 –> 00:26:00,480
what voice type you are as a as
a soprano?

448
00:26:01,320 –> 00:26:03,800
Oh, yeah.
And I think it’s, I must be

449
00:26:03,800 –> 00:26:06,320
honest, I feel like it’s an
ongoing, it’s an ongoing

450
00:26:06,320 –> 00:26:08,480
question.
I spend a lot of my time now

451
00:26:08,480 –> 00:26:10,560
teaching, which I feel very
lucky to do.

452
00:26:10,560 –> 00:26:12,360
And I have some fantastic
students.

453
00:26:12,360 –> 00:26:14,640
And I have two students at the
moment, both of whom are in

454
00:26:14,640 –> 00:26:18,920
their 20s, who are really
thinking, am I this or am I

455
00:26:18,960 –> 00:26:20,840
that?
And I, and I keep saying to

456
00:26:20,840 –> 00:26:23,520
them, that’s the amazing thing
about voice, is it?

457
00:26:23,560 –> 00:26:26,840
It’s a movable feast.
It doesn’t have to be one thing

458
00:26:26,840 –> 00:26:29,400
or another.
It can be a journey that you go

459
00:26:29,400 –> 00:26:30,640
on.
And I love the fact that you

460
00:26:30,640 –> 00:26:38,280
said journey because it is in my
experience as a singer, I know a

461
00:26:38,280 –> 00:26:40,560
lot of people want to put you in
a box.

462
00:26:41,280 –> 00:26:45,560
They want to say, ah, this is
Miriam, she does this and that’s

463
00:26:45,560 –> 00:26:49,840
it.
And when I first moved to the

464
00:26:49,840 –> 00:26:54,280
UK, I felt very much that people
like people in a box because

465
00:26:54,280 –> 00:27:00,120
then you’re explicable, they can
understand you, but then you are

466
00:27:00,120 –> 00:27:03,800
malleable to their because they
can pick up that box and put it

467
00:27:03,800 –> 00:27:07,200
where they want you.
And I’m a little bit of a rebel

468
00:27:07,200 –> 00:27:09,800
and a little bit naughty and a
little bit, you’re not going to

469
00:27:09,800 –> 00:27:12,800
be bossing me around.
And, and I quite like being the

470
00:27:12,800 –> 00:27:16,480
person who sings a lot of early
music, which is great and

471
00:27:16,560 –> 00:27:20,880
fabulous and my favourite thing.
But I also occasionally sing

472
00:27:20,880 –> 00:27:25,800
other stuff, like I do a lot of
contemporary music, which suits

473
00:27:25,800 –> 00:27:29,080
my skill set extremely well.
I’m really quick with learning

474
00:27:29,080 –> 00:27:31,520
music, which is great because a
lot of composers will go

475
00:27:31,520 –> 00:27:33,320
brilliant.
I’m just going to rewrite the

476
00:27:33,320 –> 00:27:36,600
whole last section again and
you’re like, Oh well, we’re live

477
00:27:36,600 –> 00:27:38,480
on the radio in 5 minutes, let’s
have it, shall we?

478
00:27:39,280 –> 00:27:42,920
But that, that’s I, I love that
sort of pressure.

479
00:27:42,920 –> 00:27:45,920
I think that’s tremendous fun.
I know I’m a weirdo, it’s fine.

480
00:27:46,320 –> 00:27:52,000
But I do think a lot of it is
about what I feel comfortable

481
00:27:52,160 –> 00:27:56,320
doing on stage.
And I, I think it’s one of the

482
00:27:56,320 –> 00:28:01,080
reasons that early music really
has stuck is because I can be

483
00:28:01,360 –> 00:28:06,040
actually enormously free and
enormously inventive and

484
00:28:06,040 –> 00:28:09,320
creative, which is one of the
things I admire so much about

485
00:28:09,320 –> 00:28:12,360
continuo players, about the
luteinists and harpsichordists

486
00:28:13,040 –> 00:28:16,760
and harpists that I work with.
Because they are constantly

487
00:28:16,760 –> 00:28:20,720
inventing the way in which they
interpret the music.

488
00:28:20,720 –> 00:28:24,680
And that becomes, I mean, when
you get it right, that duetting

489
00:28:24,680 –> 00:28:30,560
is just, it’s like nothing else.
So I think for me, and I, I

490
00:28:30,600 –> 00:28:33,520
really stress, this is very much
my experience and my journey.

491
00:28:34,640 –> 00:28:37,440
It’s much more about the
intellectual stimulation than it

492
00:28:37,440 –> 00:28:40,920
is just about voice.
I love singing, I love being a

493
00:28:40,920 –> 00:28:44,840
singer, but I’m very much a
musician and I’m very much

494
00:28:44,840 –> 00:28:48,840
somebody who is excited by what
happens musically.

495
00:28:49,520 –> 00:28:52,880
I think years of being a bass
player mean that I have a little

496
00:28:52,880 –> 00:28:57,000
more attention, perhaps around
the continuo line and around

497
00:28:57,000 –> 00:29:01,680
what’s happening in the bass
part and when I’m singing with

498
00:29:02,760 –> 00:29:05,200
my small voice.
We are singing in a group of 6

499
00:29:05,200 –> 00:29:10,440
singers through Les Afroison and
we’ve performed all the music

500
00:29:10,520 –> 00:29:14,000
Montevideo wrote and we’ve done
all of the music Geraldo wrote

501
00:29:14,000 –> 00:29:18,920
more recently and we’ve just
done this unbelievable danced.

502
00:29:19,000 –> 00:29:21,320
We were dancing as well, which
was an experience.

503
00:29:22,160 –> 00:29:27,640
A danced a JoJo Aldo passion,
taking the music from Holy Week

504
00:29:28,320 –> 00:29:31,280
from JoJo Aldo and putting it
into into a passion, which was

505
00:29:31,280 –> 00:29:36,040
done by Paul Agnew.
And when I’m in that situation

506
00:29:36,040 –> 00:29:39,560
as an A cappella singer and I’m
on the top of the texture, my

507
00:29:39,560 –> 00:29:43,240
entire understanding of how I’m
going to place my voice, where’s

508
00:29:43,240 –> 00:29:46,120
my tuning, how I’m going to
react to what’s going on around

509
00:29:46,120 –> 00:29:49,480
me comes from the bass line.
And if I don’t have that

510
00:29:49,480 –> 00:29:53,040
foundation, or if my the bass
line is somehow wonky or

511
00:29:53,040 –> 00:29:57,320
unsettled, I find my job is
extremely difficult to do.

512
00:29:57,760 –> 00:30:00,440
But that’s the kind of thing
that fires up my brain, and I

513
00:30:00,440 –> 00:30:05,400
find that brilliant.
I’d like to move into your

514
00:30:05,400 –> 00:30:08,640
career on the stage and I’d like
to actually for you to talk

515
00:30:08,640 –> 00:30:11,720
about some of the ensembles that
you just mentioned there you’ve

516
00:30:11,720 –> 00:30:14,760
performed with.
You mentioned Lazar Florissant,

517
00:30:14,760 –> 00:30:20,040
the back collegium of Japan.
Is there a stand out recording

518
00:30:20,080 –> 00:30:25,240
period or performance with these
ensembles that you think upon

519
00:30:25,240 –> 00:30:28,000
fondly?
Oh, loads of them.

520
00:30:28,040 –> 00:30:31,320
And I, I feel really, really
grateful in terms of live

521
00:30:31,320 –> 00:30:35,120
performance.
And it’s, it’s also fabulously

522
00:30:35,120 –> 00:30:37,800
relevant to the, the tour I’m
about to do with the Bach

523
00:30:37,800 –> 00:30:41,400
Academy Australia.
I think probably one of the most

524
00:30:41,440 –> 00:30:45,120
moving moments of my life
performing life was singing

525
00:30:45,120 –> 00:30:48,840
Kentada 106 standing at the foot
of Bach’s grave in the Tirmani

526
00:30:48,840 –> 00:30:50,680
Ke$ha in Leipzig.
Yeah.

527
00:30:50,680 –> 00:30:55,040
Oh, I wept bucket loads.
I absolutely wept bucket loads.

528
00:30:55,040 –> 00:30:57,480
It was one of the most moving
experiences of my life.

529
00:30:59,240 –> 00:31:02,920
I’ve gotten to sing in some
extraordinary places.

530
00:31:03,880 –> 00:31:10,640
I very recently went to Macau,
these region of China, and sang

531
00:31:10,920 –> 00:31:15,920
the John Passion, which was an
amazing experience to sing with

532
00:31:15,920 –> 00:31:19,920
a choir from Hong Kong and to
play with the Macau Symphony

533
00:31:19,920 –> 00:31:24,560
Orchestra, who were wonderful.
And I think one of the most

534
00:31:24,560 –> 00:31:29,480
amazing aspects of that has been
that music is it just transcends

535
00:31:29,480 –> 00:31:31,360
borders.
You know, as you said, I’ve been

536
00:31:31,360 –> 00:31:33,480
to Japan to sing with the Bach
religion.

537
00:31:33,520 –> 00:31:36,520
I’ve been to Israel and some
with an Israeli ensemble.

538
00:31:37,640 –> 00:31:42,760
And that, I mean, what a what a
privilege, what an honour to be

539
00:31:42,760 –> 00:31:46,360
able to go all over the world
and do something that comes from

540
00:31:46,360 –> 00:31:50,440
some kid from Newcastle, which I
really feel it.

541
00:31:50,800 –> 00:31:53,240
I think in terms of recordings
stand out.

542
00:31:53,240 –> 00:31:58,200
Recordings for me are probably
some of the recent work I’ve

543
00:31:58,200 –> 00:32:02,040
done with, with the our flow
with, with Paul Agnew directing,

544
00:32:02,840 –> 00:32:05,960
which was a series we did of
Jesualdo.

545
00:32:06,720 –> 00:32:09,680
And we unlike a lot of other
ensembles, we’ve done everything

546
00:32:09,680 –> 00:32:14,160
including the 6th book acapella
and we’ve won a couple of

547
00:32:14,160 –> 00:32:17,760
gramophone gramophone awards for
that and some Monteverdi as

548
00:32:17,760 –> 00:32:20,160
well.
And more recently, which I

549
00:32:20,280 –> 00:32:23,920
haven’t, I must admit, not yet
heard some Bach recordings as

550
00:32:23,920 –> 00:32:25,840
well.
And they’ve been a joy to make

551
00:32:25,840 –> 00:32:28,480
because it’s making music with
friends and that’s always a

552
00:32:28,480 –> 00:32:31,120
pleasure.
I’m wondering if you can help

553
00:32:31,120 –> 00:32:33,400
me.
By donating to the Meet the

554
00:32:33,400 –> 00:32:36,720
Musician Fund, you can help keep
this podcast alive.

555
00:32:37,160 –> 00:32:40,440
Every pound you give will help
cover our rising technology,

556
00:32:40,440 –> 00:32:44,560
advertising and administrative
costs, help meet the musicians,

557
00:32:44,560 –> 00:32:48,560
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the UK and around the world.

558
00:32:48,920 –> 00:32:52,000
Donate today by the link in this
episode’s description.

559
00:32:52,440 –> 00:32:55,040
Now let’s get back to the main
feature, shall we?

560
00:33:00,860 –> 00:33:07,100
You mentioned earlier about the
the continuo having having an

561
00:33:07,100 –> 00:33:10,300
interesting job because they
have to sort of almost reinvent

562
00:33:10,300 –> 00:33:12,700
thing each each time.
And you were mentioning that in

563
00:33:12,700 –> 00:33:15,480
early music.
You really love that idea of,

564
00:33:15,600 –> 00:33:19,720
you know, invention, but at what
point as an artist do you feel

565
00:33:19,720 –> 00:33:23,000
confident in your ability to
interpret these works?

566
00:33:23,240 –> 00:33:25,240
Because I’d imagine that would
be quite daunting at at the

567
00:33:25,240 –> 00:33:29,080
start of your career.
Yeah, and I think the thing that

568
00:33:29,080 –> 00:33:33,640
was most daunting as a good word
to choose when I first started

569
00:33:33,920 –> 00:33:38,400
really taking early music a lot
more seriously was the the kind

570
00:33:38,440 –> 00:33:43,560
of the scholarship around it and
the academic side of it, where

571
00:33:43,560 –> 00:33:47,000
we’re talking about treatises
from 300 years ago that are in a

572
00:33:47,000 –> 00:33:51,360
language I don’t speak or that
are in such an archaic language.

573
00:33:51,440 –> 00:33:55,240
At one, at one point I had an
Italian nanny for my children.

574
00:33:55,240 –> 00:33:58,560
I have three children.
And absolutely wonderful woman

575
00:33:59,280 –> 00:34:00,760
came and worked with us for a
long time.

576
00:34:00,760 –> 00:34:02,600
She was great.
And she heard me practising one

577
00:34:02,600 –> 00:34:06,520
day and she said, darling, it’s
beautiful, it’s lovely.

578
00:34:07,080 –> 00:34:09,480
What are you saying?
And I said, oh, it’s an Italian.

579
00:34:09,560 –> 00:34:11,560
Did you not?
She said, yes, yes, but you

580
00:34:11,560 –> 00:34:15,320
sound like Shakespeare.
No one says that.

581
00:34:15,320 –> 00:34:16,600
And then she talked to me in
Amazing mail.

582
00:34:17,040 –> 00:34:21,280
But, you know, we are talking
about antiquated language.

583
00:34:21,280 –> 00:34:23,520
We’re talking about antiquated
ways of thinking.

584
00:34:23,520 –> 00:34:26,040
We’re talking about social
constraints that don’t exist

585
00:34:26,040 –> 00:34:30,239
anymore.
And so I, I wasn’t, I was

586
00:34:30,239 –> 00:34:33,639
intimidated and daunted by those
sorts of things initially.

587
00:34:34,560 –> 00:34:39,719
The more I got to spend time
singing internationally,

588
00:34:39,760 –> 00:34:43,320
genuinely internationally, I
realised it was much less about

589
00:34:43,320 –> 00:34:46,560
scholarship and a great deal
more about collaboration.

590
00:34:48,080 –> 00:34:50,560
There are rules.
For example, when I, I’m

591
00:34:50,560 –> 00:34:55,920
coaching young singers on their,
on their baroque pieces for, you

592
00:34:55,920 –> 00:34:58,400
know, their, their final
recitals or for their master’s

593
00:34:58,400 –> 00:35:01,760
degrees or whatever, I always
say to them, there are a couple

594
00:35:01,760 –> 00:35:03,680
of golden rules.
For example, with ornamentation,

595
00:35:03,680 –> 00:35:06,160
don’t mess with the harmony,
don’t mess with the beat.

596
00:35:06,440 –> 00:35:08,480
And beyond that, we’ll have a
go.

597
00:35:09,240 –> 00:35:13,280
And there are some rules, sure.
But beyond that, what we have to

598
00:35:13,280 –> 00:35:17,040
do is unlock the singer’s
interpretation of the music,

599
00:35:17,360 –> 00:35:19,960
because that is more important
than anything else.

600
00:35:20,400 –> 00:35:23,360
If you’ve got nothing to say
about it and you’re just trying

601
00:35:23,360 –> 00:35:27,040
to be a carbon copy of somebody
else, no one’s going to be

602
00:35:27,040 –> 00:35:30,960
interested.
And I think you asked, when do I

603
00:35:30,960 –> 00:35:33,480
know that I’ve kind of got it
right and when did I feel

604
00:35:33,480 –> 00:35:38,000
confident?
I still have a great risk every

605
00:35:38,000 –> 00:35:42,560
time I go to give a recording or
a performance that there will be

606
00:35:42,560 –> 00:35:44,520
people who go, oh, you can’t do
that.

607
00:35:44,520 –> 00:35:47,720
Oh, that’s no good at all.
Oh no, that’s so and so said in

608
00:35:47,720 –> 00:35:51,880
the treatises of 1728 that blah,
blah, blah and there will be

609
00:35:51,880 –> 00:35:53,400
people.
Oh, you better believe it,

610
00:35:53,400 –> 00:35:55,080
James.
There are always letters to the

611
00:35:55,080 –> 00:35:56,800
editor.
It started with me being the

612
00:35:56,800 –> 00:36:02,720
only girl in the cathedral.
Thankfully I’m a bit of a

613
00:36:02,720 –> 00:36:03,840
loudmouth and I’ll take them
down.

614
00:36:03,960 –> 00:36:07,480
But but in all seriousness, it
there will be, there are always

615
00:36:07,480 –> 00:36:12,160
going to be people who object.
But the main thing for me is do

616
00:36:12,160 –> 00:36:17,160
I speak to the audience and do I
allow them to have a moment

617
00:36:17,160 –> 00:36:19,760
where they are moved, and I mean
genuinely moved.

618
00:36:19,760 –> 00:36:23,480
It’s not just, oh, she’s saying
that really nicely, or you’ve

619
00:36:23,480 –> 00:36:26,960
got a beautiful voice, which is
a lovely thing to say, but it’s

620
00:36:26,960 –> 00:36:30,120
not really saying anything.
It’s when people come up to you

621
00:36:30,120 –> 00:36:33,160
and they say, I can’t stop
shaking.

622
00:36:33,160 –> 00:36:35,680
That’s really got to me.
Or I cried and cried and cried

623
00:36:35,680 –> 00:36:39,320
and cried and cried, or I found
myself laughing along with you,

624
00:36:39,320 –> 00:36:42,920
or it was tremendously sad and I
felt myself holding my breath.

625
00:36:42,920 –> 00:36:46,720
And that’s when I know I’ve
really done my job and giving

626
00:36:46,720 –> 00:36:53,960
people that that moment to
really feel is what we as

627
00:36:53,960 –> 00:36:57,280
artists are asking for.
We we want to get people to

628
00:36:57,320 –> 00:37:01,080
participate in those moments
with us, whether that’s live or

629
00:37:01,400 –> 00:37:04,920
down a recording or even
streamed these days.

630
00:37:04,920 –> 00:37:06,800
So many performances I’ve ever
streamed.

631
00:37:07,720 –> 00:37:10,800
The confidence comes from the
way in which the audience and my

632
00:37:10,800 –> 00:37:14,760
colleagues react.
And that is moments when you are

633
00:37:15,240 –> 00:37:20,040
able to be so free in those
performances and so trusted by

634
00:37:20,040 –> 00:37:22,880
your colleagues.
I take that as the most enormous

635
00:37:22,880 –> 00:37:24,720
sign that I’m on the right
track.

636
00:37:25,800 –> 00:37:28,440
And when somebody says to me,
oh, you’re really easy to

637
00:37:28,440 –> 00:37:33,040
follow, I think, yes, I’ve done
something right because it’s,

638
00:37:33,200 –> 00:37:36,160
it’s clear, it’s fantastic.
And it means that we’re we’re

639
00:37:36,200 –> 00:37:39,680
sharing those moments.
There’s nothing more wonderful

640
00:37:39,680 –> 00:37:43,400
as a musician.
And you make a good point

641
00:37:43,400 –> 00:37:46,320
because I watched an interview
once with, I think it was Thomas

642
00:37:46,320 –> 00:37:49,920
Hampson, the baritone.
And he talked about the fact

643
00:37:49,920 –> 00:37:53,600
that when it comes to performing
in front of the audience, there

644
00:37:53,600 –> 00:37:56,520
comes a time you have to say to
yourself, OK, I’ve done enough

645
00:37:56,520 –> 00:37:59,040
on the interpretation.
I’ve done enough on learning the

646
00:37:59,360 –> 00:38:01,640
notes.
I now need to worry about making

647
00:38:01,640 –> 00:38:04,360
a connection with the audience.
That’s what I’m, that’s what I’m

648
00:38:04,360 –> 00:38:07,680
here to do, you know, so and.
I, I totally agree with him,

649
00:38:07,720 –> 00:38:10,000
absolutely.
And it’s one of the things that

650
00:38:10,000 –> 00:38:13,240
we, we, why we as singers spend
so much time working on those

651
00:38:13,280 –> 00:38:16,360
technical aspects of singing
when we are younger.

652
00:38:16,720 –> 00:38:19,960
Because what we want to be able
to do is get it so firmly

653
00:38:19,960 –> 00:38:23,160
ingrained in the muscle memory
that that can stop being

654
00:38:23,160 –> 00:38:25,120
something that becomes dominant
in our thinking.

655
00:38:25,120 –> 00:38:27,960
And instead we can be there to
be in the moment to react to the

656
00:38:28,000 –> 00:38:30,400
audience.
You know, we don’t play for

657
00:38:30,400 –> 00:38:32,560
laughs.
Well, sometimes, no, we don’t

658
00:38:32,560 –> 00:38:35,520
play for laughs so much as as as
comics do.

659
00:38:35,520 –> 00:38:38,560
But I think any comic will tell
you that it’s about timing.

660
00:38:38,560 –> 00:38:42,120
It’s about the way in which the
audience reacts to you and how

661
00:38:42,120 –> 00:38:43,800
long can you hold their
attention.

662
00:38:44,760 –> 00:38:49,320
There are times when I wish I
could go back and say to myself,

663
00:38:49,520 –> 00:38:53,120
why are you in such a rush?
That rest can be longer, that

664
00:38:53,120 –> 00:38:56,960
breath can take more time, that
pause between movements can be

665
00:38:56,960 –> 00:39:00,560
almost uncomfortable because
we’ve got to give people space

666
00:39:01,200 –> 00:39:04,360
to fail.
And that might make us feel a

667
00:39:04,360 –> 00:39:07,520
little uncomfortable.
But that is why they’ve come to

668
00:39:07,520 –> 00:39:09,360
the show.
They’ve bought your recording.

669
00:39:10,800 –> 00:39:13,920
And for me, yeah, Thomas
Hampson’s absolutely right.

670
00:39:13,920 –> 00:39:18,440
It is handing it over and
finding a way to communicate and

671
00:39:18,440 –> 00:39:21,600
collaborate.
And, you know, I mean, I, I’m a

672
00:39:21,600 –> 00:39:26,000
bit biassed, but I, I do think
that early music is quite good

673
00:39:26,000 –> 00:39:29,440
at doing that because I, you
know, there are certain moments

674
00:39:29,440 –> 00:39:33,320
like in box B minor mass when I
hear Andreas Scholl sing the

675
00:39:33,840 –> 00:39:38,760
Annus day, like it’s just so
full of pathos that it’s, it

676
00:39:38,760 –> 00:39:41,640
does just you, you block
everything else out, you know.

677
00:39:42,600 –> 00:39:45,520
Absolutely.
And we, we need that.

678
00:39:45,520 –> 00:39:48,880
I think as a society and as
humans, we need that connection

679
00:39:48,880 –> 00:39:50,640
to something that’s so far
beyond us.

680
00:39:51,200 –> 00:39:53,960
It’s one of the tricky things
about being a singer is

681
00:39:53,960 –> 00:39:58,480
everybody owns an instrument and
consequently everyone’s got an

682
00:39:58,480 –> 00:40:02,040
opinion.
That can be great, that can be

683
00:40:02,040 –> 00:40:04,520
great, but it can also take away
from it.

684
00:40:04,960 –> 00:40:09,600
But the one thing that that
having that similarity, I don’t

685
00:40:09,600 –> 00:40:11,680
own the clarinet.
I don’t play the clarinet.

686
00:40:12,320 –> 00:40:14,760
I, you know, I can kind of bash
out a bit on the piano, but I’m

687
00:40:14,760 –> 00:40:17,840
not a pianist and you know, I
see somebody play the piano,

688
00:40:17,880 –> 00:40:22,360
like properly play the piano and
I am disconnected in a way

689
00:40:22,680 –> 00:40:26,640
because I don’t have that.
I can’t do it.

690
00:40:27,120 –> 00:40:30,080
Doesn’t mean I couldn’t, but I
can’t at the moment.

691
00:40:30,920 –> 00:40:33,800
So there’s a barrier to my
accessing that moment.

692
00:40:33,800 –> 00:40:37,360
Doesn’t stop my appreciation,
but I don’t have a personal

693
00:40:37,360 –> 00:40:40,880
investment.
Whereas with singing, everyone’s

694
00:40:40,880 –> 00:40:46,600
got a voice and however we use
it, irregardless of that, we all

695
00:40:46,600 –> 00:40:49,800
have connections to singers that
we don’t necessarily have to

696
00:40:49,800 –> 00:40:52,240
instrumentalists.
Because there’s a little part of

697
00:40:52,240 –> 00:40:55,400
us that thinks I could do that.
I know what that means.

698
00:40:56,000 –> 00:40:57,680
I know what it’s like to sing
something.

699
00:40:57,680 –> 00:41:00,440
I know what it’s like to feel
nervous in front of an audience.

700
00:41:00,440 –> 00:41:02,960
You know, even if it was in your
nativity play when you’re in

701
00:41:02,960 –> 00:41:09,560
Hindi, it doesn’t matter.
We are, as singers, putting on

702
00:41:09,560 –> 00:41:13,840
stage what everyone has a little
bit of an investment in and that

703
00:41:13,960 –> 00:41:17,080
I think fundamentally changes
the reaction that we can have

704
00:41:17,120 –> 00:41:20,680
with an audience and I don’t
think it’s something we should

705
00:41:20,680 –> 00:41:23,600
take for granted.
Agreed.

706
00:41:24,080 –> 00:41:27,840
Now I’d like to turn to We’ve
talked about Miriam the singer.

707
00:41:27,840 –> 00:41:30,320
I’d like to talk about Miriam
the educator now, if you will.

708
00:41:30,320 –> 00:41:30,840
Oh.
Yay.

709
00:41:33,400 –> 00:41:37,040
I’ve read that your style of
vocal coaching is centred around

710
00:41:37,040 –> 00:41:41,560
Breathe, Sing, Create.
Can you expand upon that?

711
00:41:41,560 –> 00:41:44,480
Absolutely.
No, no, I really want students

712
00:41:44,480 –> 00:41:48,200
to come and have the experience
that that they are doing

713
00:41:48,240 –> 00:41:51,400
fundamental things, one of which
is breathing.

714
00:41:51,400 –> 00:41:56,520
And it’s we are so good.
Oh, singers are so good at

715
00:41:56,520 –> 00:41:59,440
holding on to something.
You want to give us a tiny

716
00:41:59,440 –> 00:42:02,000
little bit of negativity and a
huge amount of positivity.

717
00:42:02,000 –> 00:42:04,000
And I can tell you what the
singers are going to hang on to.

718
00:42:04,120 –> 00:42:05,680
Oh, there’s that little bit of
negativity.

719
00:42:06,560 –> 00:42:12,320
And the minute that we start to
interrupt the flow that we have

720
00:42:12,360 –> 00:42:15,600
as a create, as a creator, as a,
as a person in a creative

721
00:42:15,600 –> 00:42:19,880
process is the moment that we
start to hold and we hold our

722
00:42:19,880 –> 00:42:22,120
breath and we hold back the
voice.

723
00:42:22,440 –> 00:42:26,200
And that’s where all of that
creativity that we’ve got as

724
00:42:26,320 –> 00:42:30,040
potential within us starts to be
compromised.

725
00:42:30,320 –> 00:42:33,840
And what I really hope to find
with every student, and, and I

726
00:42:33,840 –> 00:42:38,560
do this with my own kids, is
that they are never inhibited to

727
00:42:38,560 –> 00:42:43,040
breathe and then to make a
noise, whatever that noise is,

728
00:42:43,040 –> 00:42:45,960
because that is their path to
their own personal creativity.

729
00:42:46,720 –> 00:42:50,160
And the more I work with
singers, the older I get, the

730
00:42:50,160 –> 00:42:55,960
more I study myself, the more I
think we have to be as singers,

731
00:42:56,000 –> 00:42:59,920
as close to our natural
processes as possible,

732
00:43:00,360 –> 00:43:03,920
acknowledging the things that
actually we quite literally in

733
00:43:03,920 –> 00:43:05,440
the case of singing, do in our
sleep.

734
00:43:05,960 –> 00:43:08,560
I mean, if you stop breathing,
James, you and I have got a

735
00:43:08,560 –> 00:43:12,360
really big problem.
Please carry on.

736
00:43:13,880 –> 00:43:18,760
But but singers will spend hours
agonising over it, agonising

737
00:43:18,760 –> 00:43:21,080
over the right breath or the
wrong breath or the inspirator.

738
00:43:21,360 –> 00:43:24,680
And actually, the more we get
wound up and spiralled up into

739
00:43:24,680 –> 00:43:30,520
this kind of panic, the less
we’re actually breathing, the

740
00:43:30,520 –> 00:43:33,400
less we’re creating, the less
we’re singing because we’re

741
00:43:33,400 –> 00:43:37,680
holding for all we’re worth.
So I’m very much about let’s tap

742
00:43:37,680 –> 00:43:41,160
into what makes you creative and
let’s find the sounds that

743
00:43:41,160 –> 00:43:43,680
you’ve got inside yourself.
And it comes from the way that

744
00:43:43,680 –> 00:43:47,760
we breathe.
And you’re currently a teacher

745
00:43:47,760 –> 00:43:51,880
at Christ College in Cambridge.
What?

746
00:43:52,000 –> 00:43:55,400
What has that role taught you
about musical education?

747
00:43:55,400 –> 00:43:57,240
Oh.
My God, thanks so much.

748
00:43:57,560 –> 00:43:59,480
I am the luckiest lady in the
whole wide world.

749
00:43:59,480 –> 00:44:04,040
I’ve got the best job ever.
These kids are just terrific.

750
00:44:04,640 –> 00:44:11,040
I’m so lucky to have them.
I have learnt primarily that the

751
00:44:11,560 –> 00:44:15,360
biggest thing that holds people
back is their own sense of

752
00:44:15,360 –> 00:44:18,080
ineptitude, which is very rarely
true.

753
00:44:19,160 –> 00:44:23,560
Very rarely true.
Most people I would say, are

754
00:44:23,560 –> 00:44:27,320
far, far more capable than they
give themselves credit for.

755
00:44:27,880 –> 00:44:31,120
And they’re far more skilled,
they’re far more intelligent and

756
00:44:31,120 –> 00:44:33,640
they are far better educated
than they give themselves credit

757
00:44:33,800 –> 00:44:38,040
for.
And I think my, the thing that

758
00:44:38,040 –> 00:44:40,560
I’ve learnt the most from my, my
lovely, lovely Cambridge

759
00:44:40,560 –> 00:44:44,360
students is that every single
person has something unique to

760
00:44:44,360 –> 00:44:48,080
offer because they’re, they’re
there to be in a, in a choir,

761
00:44:48,080 –> 00:44:51,920
they’re there in a choral
setting and every one of them

762
00:44:51,920 –> 00:44:53,720
has to contribute or they don’t
have a choir.

763
00:44:54,560 –> 00:44:57,040
Every one of them is important.
Every single person’s

764
00:44:57,040 –> 00:45:01,040
contribution is vital.
Otherwise they don’t have

765
00:45:01,040 –> 00:45:03,400
anything.
And the choir becomes their,

766
00:45:03,560 –> 00:45:06,880
their, you know, their, their
college family, their Cambridge

767
00:45:06,880 –> 00:45:10,080
family.
They form lifelong relationships

768
00:45:10,080 –> 00:45:11,920
here.
The way that they interact with

769
00:45:11,920 –> 00:45:16,320
each other, what they learn from
each other, they, they’ve been,

770
00:45:16,400 –> 00:45:18,840
they are a constant source of
joy for me.

771
00:45:18,840 –> 00:45:21,760
I’m very fortunate.
That’s beautiful.

772
00:45:22,400 –> 00:45:24,280
It’s.
Not me, it’s men.

773
00:45:26,720 –> 00:45:30,640
No, I, I think you make a good
point because, you know, in, in

774
00:45:30,640 –> 00:45:33,880
order to learn how to do
something well, we have to

775
00:45:33,880 –> 00:45:37,160
almost learn how not to do it.
And I think sometimes we’re so

776
00:45:37,480 –> 00:45:40,920
caught up in not making any
errors at all that we then just

777
00:45:41,240 –> 00:45:45,480
kind of languish, you know, like
you need to at least that’s what

778
00:45:45,480 –> 00:45:47,880
I’ve, I’ve found not, not
through, sorry, not through

779
00:45:48,000 –> 00:45:50,160
trying to be a professional
singer because I’m, I’m very

780
00:45:50,160 –> 00:45:52,120
much an amateur.
I leave that to my girlfriend,

781
00:45:53,200 –> 00:45:58,040
but through learning how to be a
broadcaster, you know, I, I sort

782
00:45:58,040 –> 00:46:02,040
of trialled things and, and
tested things out and you know.

783
00:46:03,280 –> 00:46:05,720
And it doesn’t always work.
It doesn’t always work.

784
00:46:05,720 –> 00:46:07,960
And that’s OK because some of
the ways that we learn are

785
00:46:07,960 –> 00:46:11,160
through those, through those bad
moments, those mistakes, those

786
00:46:11,160 –> 00:46:13,160
failures.
And they teach us a lot.

787
00:46:13,400 –> 00:46:15,320
I mean, even the big kids make
mistakes.

788
00:46:15,320 –> 00:46:18,320
And I’m often at pains to say to
my students and like, oh God,

789
00:46:18,320 –> 00:46:20,000
what if I make a mistake?
What if I do this sort of.

790
00:46:20,000 –> 00:46:22,920
I’m like, mate, where do you
want me to start?

791
00:46:22,920 –> 00:46:27,760
I’ve got a list and yet still,
somehow I’m still doing it.

792
00:46:28,160 –> 00:46:30,040
And I, you’re, you’re absolutely
right.

793
00:46:30,040 –> 00:46:33,360
But I think the main, the main
thing that stops people is a

794
00:46:33,360 –> 00:46:37,360
sense of, of, of failure that
they, they aren’t going to be

795
00:46:37,360 –> 00:46:39,760
good at it.
I have some reservations.

796
00:46:39,760 –> 00:46:42,080
As I said before, I’ve got these
teenage daughters and I’ve got a

797
00:46:42,080 –> 00:46:45,280
10 year old son as well who just
a minute ago was making

798
00:46:45,280 –> 00:46:47,000
hilarious faces at me through
the window.

799
00:46:47,640 –> 00:46:49,960
Never mind, but that’s what you
get.

800
00:46:50,480 –> 00:46:54,840
But you know, watching my girls
now who are 15 and 13 negotiate

801
00:46:54,920 –> 00:46:57,320
social media and, and the
Internet.

802
00:46:57,320 –> 00:47:02,120
And I think there’s a really
pervasive and slightly nasty

803
00:47:02,480 –> 00:47:05,120
idea that success is
instantaneous.

804
00:47:05,120 –> 00:47:07,800
And if you can’t do it
immediately, it’s not worth

805
00:47:07,800 –> 00:47:11,120
chasing.
And what I, I don’t like about

806
00:47:11,120 –> 00:47:17,240
this sort of immediate upload
culture is that that work will

807
00:47:17,240 –> 00:47:21,960
have taken a long time and a lot
of learning.

808
00:47:21,960 –> 00:47:24,400
And as you were saying about
becoming a broadcaster, I know

809
00:47:24,400 –> 00:47:27,600
that some content creators go
through massive failures before

810
00:47:27,600 –> 00:47:30,600
they start to find the way to
edit well, or they find the

811
00:47:30,600 –> 00:47:33,040
right script, or they find the
right voice over style or the

812
00:47:33,040 –> 00:47:38,240
right speed of filming.
And I really wish I could just

813
00:47:38,360 –> 00:47:40,880
pop up in front of all those
teenagers and say, just a minute

814
00:47:41,240 –> 00:47:43,800
now I know it looks like
overnight success, but I just

815
00:47:43,800 –> 00:47:46,800
want to be clear.
What if it’s gone into this and

816
00:47:46,800 –> 00:47:49,080
you know, my students say to me,
or how can you sing like that?

817
00:47:49,080 –> 00:47:51,800
How can you make that high note
or how can you sing for that,

818
00:47:52,000 –> 00:47:53,800
that length of time?
They’re obsessed with birth

819
00:47:53,800 –> 00:47:57,320
control, don’t understand.
But you know, and I always say

820
00:47:57,320 –> 00:48:00,080
to them, well, no one wins a
prize for the fewest number of

821
00:48:00,080 –> 00:48:01,760
breaths.
You get nothing.

822
00:48:01,920 –> 00:48:05,040
I had a good old go, James.
I had a go at winning the prize.

823
00:48:05,400 –> 00:48:08,160
The fewest number of breaths no
one gives you.

824
00:48:08,200 –> 00:48:12,680
You don’t even get a cup of tea.
And that the one thing that I

825
00:48:12,680 –> 00:48:16,320
keep saying to my students,
stop, just stop trying to stop

826
00:48:16,320 –> 00:48:19,840
trying to be something that
you’ve seen on on YouTube or

827
00:48:19,840 –> 00:48:23,240
that you heard in a recording.
You’ve got to be yourself and

828
00:48:23,240 –> 00:48:26,200
remember that it took them a
very long time to get to that

829
00:48:26,200 –> 00:48:28,240
point.
You’re going to get there too.

830
00:48:28,400 –> 00:48:30,040
And we’re going to have some fun
on the way.

831
00:48:30,480 –> 00:48:33,280
And more the point you’re going
to walk out of it, steal

832
00:48:33,280 –> 00:48:35,920
yourself.
And that’s what interests me so

833
00:48:36,000 –> 00:48:37,760
much.
I want them.

834
00:48:37,840 –> 00:48:40,720
I want their experience, their
communication, their

835
00:48:40,720 –> 00:48:43,120
interpretation.
That’s what’s interesting,

836
00:48:43,840 –> 00:48:48,360
that’s what’s vital.
And and also, I would argue,

837
00:48:48,560 –> 00:48:51,400
more satisfied too, because.
I mean.

838
00:48:52,440 –> 00:48:56,200
There’s a certain satisfaction
of, of putting the work in over

839
00:48:56,360 –> 00:48:59,080
the over the years and, and
seeing the results then rather

840
00:48:59,080 –> 00:49:02,440
than, you know, only putting a
little bit amount in and and

841
00:49:02,440 –> 00:49:05,480
seeing quite a lot, you know,
which which adds to your point,

842
00:49:05,480 –> 00:49:07,040
which isn’t normally the case,
is it?

843
00:49:07,720 –> 00:49:10,280
Absolutely.
And I think the, the idea that

844
00:49:10,280 –> 00:49:13,000
it is a lifelong journey and
that your voice will be with you

845
00:49:13,000 –> 00:49:16,280
for years is something that I’m
starting to see now, having been

846
00:49:16,280 –> 00:49:17,520
in Cambridge for a few years
now.

847
00:49:17,520 –> 00:49:20,880
I’m seeing my students after
they’ve left and they, maybe

848
00:49:20,880 –> 00:49:23,480
they come and sing an alumni
event or maybe they, and then

849
00:49:23,480 –> 00:49:26,360
they even come to my concerts
Paul loves and things like that.

850
00:49:26,360 –> 00:49:28,640
And they, and they stay in
touch, which is so lovely.

851
00:49:28,640 –> 00:49:31,120
And I’ve got students now
scattered all over the world

852
00:49:31,120 –> 00:49:34,600
and, and I get sweet little
emails or little, little

853
00:49:34,600 –> 00:49:36,480
messages on Instagram or things
that they’re doing.

854
00:49:36,560 –> 00:49:39,000
It’s just so exciting to see a
lot of them.

855
00:49:39,320 –> 00:49:40,480
Do you know what?
They’re not going to be

856
00:49:40,480 –> 00:49:42,080
musicians.
They’re not going to be

857
00:49:42,080 –> 00:49:45,280
professional singers.
And I just don’t care because

858
00:49:45,280 –> 00:49:48,320
that love of singing, that
journey goes with them.

859
00:49:48,320 –> 00:49:49,960
It goes all over the world with
them.

860
00:49:49,960 –> 00:49:52,280
They can be a lawyer in New York
and still be in a choir.

861
00:49:52,680 –> 00:49:55,760
And I’ve got students who’ve
gone down different pathways,

862
00:49:55,760 –> 00:49:59,040
who’ve gone down language
studies or who, because I’m at

863
00:49:59,040 –> 00:50:01,440
Christ’s in Cambridge.
There’s a lot of scientists

864
00:50:01,440 –> 00:50:03,280
around my my neck of the woods
there.

865
00:50:03,960 –> 00:50:06,520
They’re still singing.
You know, I had one lovely

866
00:50:06,520 –> 00:50:09,880
student who did his undergrad in
in Cambridge, went up to Glasgow

867
00:50:09,880 –> 00:50:13,200
and did a master’s degree.
And all he wanted to talk about

868
00:50:13,200 –> 00:50:15,640
was all the singing he’d done.
Because he’s come back and do is

869
00:50:15,640 –> 00:50:18,160
do his PhD now in Cambridge.
That’s what he wanted to tell me

870
00:50:18,160 –> 00:50:23,360
about his whole year away was I
did all this cool singing.

871
00:50:23,480 –> 00:50:25,720
Let me show you the videos, let
me tell you all about it.

872
00:50:25,720 –> 00:50:29,560
And he got the programmes out.
And that’s the most amazing

873
00:50:29,560 –> 00:50:31,880
thing about singing is it’s
lifelong and it goes with us.

874
00:50:31,920 –> 00:50:35,880
It goes everywhere with us.
And you make some From my

875
00:50:35,880 –> 00:50:38,360
perspective, you make some very
good friends along the way as

876
00:50:38,360 –> 00:50:40,280
well.
Absolutely right.

877
00:50:40,280 –> 00:50:44,000
You doing teams?
I’m sure you’ve heard there is a

878
00:50:44,000 –> 00:50:47,560
rather fun section that we have
to end the show here and meet

879
00:50:47,560 –> 00:50:49,680
the musicians.
It’s called Turn the Tables.

880
00:50:50,400 –> 00:50:52,760
So I’ve had the I’ve had the mic
long enough.

881
00:50:52,760 –> 00:50:55,360
Now it’s time for you to fire
some questions at me.

882
00:50:57,040 –> 00:51:00,440
Okie dokie.
Well clearly you are a choral

883
00:51:00,440 –> 00:51:04,360
music nerd, which I love.
Tell me what, what are your

884
00:51:04,360 –> 00:51:05,920
choral music bangers?
What are the ones?

885
00:51:06,000 –> 00:51:07,960
What are the the best choral
pieces for you?

886
00:51:07,960 –> 00:51:09,600
Maybe the ones you’ve sung,
even.

887
00:51:10,600 –> 00:51:14,200
Oh well, it’s a great regret to
me that I I never actually had

888
00:51:14,200 –> 00:51:17,840
the chance to sing the B minor
mass because that’s on my my

889
00:51:17,840 –> 00:51:19,720
bucket list of what I would like
to sing.

890
00:51:21,920 –> 00:51:22,880
Yeah.
We’ll kind of we’ll.

891
00:51:23,520 –> 00:51:25,800
Stay in touch.
Yeah, we’ll work on this.

892
00:51:25,800 –> 00:51:31,720
I’m taking notes, darling.
I would say oh, favourite choral

893
00:51:31,720 –> 00:51:34,760
pieces?
I really like the Ladate

894
00:51:34,800 –> 00:51:38,760
Dominium from Mozart’s Solemn
Vespers of a Confettor.

895
00:51:38,800 –> 00:51:41,680
Yes, I know the choir doesn’t
technically sing a lot in that

896
00:51:41,680 –> 00:51:44,080
piece, but it’s just so
absolutely gorgeous.

897
00:51:44,360 –> 00:51:47,440
I’m a bit of a Mozart tragic
actually, so I’d probably say.

898
00:51:47,720 –> 00:51:51,640
Bring it on, I love.
It even more so than that would

899
00:51:51,640 –> 00:51:55,320
be the Ave Verum Corpus.
I I’ll never forget I, I sung

900
00:51:55,320 –> 00:52:00,200
that with a combined choir in
Brisbane City Hall and I, I had

901
00:52:00,200 –> 00:52:02,040
tears rolling down my eyes as I
sung it.

902
00:52:02,040 –> 00:52:03,800
It’s just such a beautiful piece
of music.

903
00:52:04,760 –> 00:52:07,520
Oh, and isn’t that wonderful?
What a great experience to have

904
00:52:07,520 –> 00:52:10,080
had.
What was it that really affected

905
00:52:10,080 –> 00:52:12,320
you the most?
Was it the music or was it the

906
00:52:12,320 –> 00:52:15,080
community that was making the
music with you?

907
00:52:16,040 –> 00:52:19,880
Oh, that’s a great question.
I I would say I’d say it’d be a

908
00:52:19,880 –> 00:52:22,560
bit of both, but but probably
more so the music.

909
00:52:22,600 –> 00:52:26,640
I I find Mozart more so than
other composers.

910
00:52:27,720 –> 00:52:29,960
Although don’t ask me to choose
between Bach and Mozart.

911
00:52:29,960 –> 00:52:34,960
Can’t answer that one.
I’d say that Mozart has such a

912
00:52:34,960 –> 00:52:38,960
profound sense of melody and,
and his melodies are just so, so

913
00:52:38,960 –> 00:52:42,120
beautiful that it’s hard to
think of his pieces being

914
00:52:42,120 –> 00:52:45,280
written in any other way.
And, and I and I even think of

915
00:52:45,280 –> 00:52:47,960
his instrumental pieces, some of
them could be Arias.

916
00:52:48,160 –> 00:52:51,200
I mean, opera is what he wanted
to be composing most of the

917
00:52:51,200 –> 00:52:53,760
time.
So all of his instrumental

918
00:52:53,760 –> 00:52:57,080
pieces, they do have a a song
like quality to them really.

919
00:52:57,760 –> 00:52:59,720
They do.
And when I was at university, I

920
00:52:59,720 –> 00:53:03,080
remember the the head of
strings, a violinist named

921
00:53:03,080 –> 00:53:04,920
Elizabeth Hollowell.
Elizabeth used to make her

922
00:53:04,920 –> 00:53:07,640
students make up narratives,
make up stories to those

923
00:53:07,880 –> 00:53:10,240
concertos.
You know, she’d be teaching

924
00:53:10,240 –> 00:53:12,520
Mozart violin concertos, and
she’d be getting her students to

925
00:53:12,520 –> 00:53:15,800
write stories about what was
happening in the music.

926
00:53:15,800 –> 00:53:18,680
And so they had like, a little
drama playing out as well.

927
00:53:18,680 –> 00:53:20,680
You’re so right about that sense
of melody.

928
00:53:21,400 –> 00:53:26,120
Do you think that music making
for you is something that is

929
00:53:26,240 –> 00:53:28,720
very individual?
Like is it something you like to

930
00:53:28,720 –> 00:53:32,280
do with, with headphones on, on
your own, listening to what you

931
00:53:32,280 –> 00:53:34,840
want?
Or is it is it a more communal

932
00:53:34,840 –> 00:53:36,320
experience?
Do you like being in the room

933
00:53:36,320 –> 00:53:38,440
where it happens?
I think that you must be the

934
00:53:38,440 –> 00:53:41,440
first person to ask me that.
No, I I would say that the

935
00:53:41,440 –> 00:53:44,760
community aspect is what I I
enjoyed most about music.

936
00:53:44,760 –> 00:53:47,320
The whole reason I like
classical music is because my

937
00:53:47,320 –> 00:53:51,040
father and I, he used to take us
to school and he’d have ABC

938
00:53:51,040 –> 00:53:55,000
Classics on while we were going
to school and he and I would

939
00:53:55,080 –> 00:53:56,840
enjoy the music during the
drive.

940
00:53:58,080 –> 00:54:00,880
And then I met some of my
closest friends singing in the

941
00:54:00,880 –> 00:54:04,520
Queensland Choir in Brisbane.
You know, we used to, in the

942
00:54:04,800 –> 00:54:07,440
break at rehearsal, we’d come
and talk about our favourite

943
00:54:07,440 –> 00:54:09,680
composer, our favourite pieces
or oh, I really like this

944
00:54:09,680 –> 00:54:12,240
section of this piece that we’re
singing and, and things like

945
00:54:12,240 –> 00:54:14,840
that.
So no, I think while there are

946
00:54:14,840 –> 00:54:18,200
composers that are quite
personal to me, I think that

947
00:54:18,200 –> 00:54:20,480
music as a whole is a community
thing.

948
00:54:21,200 –> 00:54:23,840
And it it has the opportunity to
bring so many different people

949
00:54:23,840 –> 00:54:25,240
together.
As you’re saying, you, you know,

950
00:54:25,360 –> 00:54:28,000
you get to your tea break and
you’re all still gabbling away

951
00:54:28,000 –> 00:54:29,760
about music.
And it doesn’t matter where

952
00:54:29,760 –> 00:54:31,320
you’ve come from, how old you
are.

953
00:54:32,760 –> 00:54:34,400
That’s it.
It’s already drawn you all

954
00:54:34,400 –> 00:54:36,080
together.
And what a wonderful thing.

955
00:54:36,400 –> 00:54:39,880
OK.
Last question, if you’re if you

956
00:54:39,880 –> 00:54:45,440
were able to go in here, the
first performance of anything

957
00:54:46,760 –> 00:54:48,480
doesn’t matter.
When in history what would you

958
00:54:48,480 –> 00:54:51,640
go here?
Oh, that’s a good one.

959
00:54:51,880 –> 00:54:55,040
I think maybe Handel’s Messiah
just because I hear, I’ve heard

960
00:54:55,040 –> 00:54:58,360
good things about I’ve, I’ve
been reading about the premiere.

961
00:54:58,360 –> 00:55:01,400
It sounds quite, you know, men
weren’t allowed to wear swords

962
00:55:01,400 –> 00:55:04,640
around their around their waist
because there was so much, it

963
00:55:04,640 –> 00:55:07,480
was so packed, the concert hall.
So yeah, I think I’d probably

964
00:55:07,480 –> 00:55:10,480
say Handel’s Messiah.
So a little trip to Dublin there

965
00:55:10,480 –> 00:55:12,360
a nice one.
Yes, yes, yes.

966
00:55:13,320 –> 00:55:15,640
Yeah, I’m going to say I
wouldn’t mind going to that

967
00:55:15,640 –> 00:55:17,240
either.
I think that’d be quite.

968
00:55:18,200 –> 00:55:20,720
Interesting, and it has a rare
aspect because it’s a piece that

969
00:55:20,720 –> 00:55:23,920
was popular immediately, like so
much classical music is popular

970
00:55:23,920 –> 00:55:28,400
after the fact centuries later.
Exactly that.

971
00:55:28,560 –> 00:55:32,440
And it’s amazing, isn’t it, just
how much of this stuff we forget

972
00:55:32,640 –> 00:55:35,320
was avant garde, was really
pushing the boundaries and of

973
00:55:35,320 –> 00:55:37,280
course was the pop music of its
day.

974
00:55:38,160 –> 00:55:41,200
And yeah, the fact that it was
immediately a hit and has

975
00:55:41,200 –> 00:55:46,000
remained so.
I mean, I think I’m up to well

976
00:55:46,000 –> 00:55:47,960
over 200 performances now.
I’ve Messiah.

977
00:55:47,960 –> 00:55:51,520
I’m quite possibly more.
I hate to think, but I never get

978
00:55:51,520 –> 00:55:52,480
bored of it.
I love it.

979
00:55:52,840 –> 00:55:55,520
Absolutely love it.
Oh, what a great idea.

980
00:55:57,920 –> 00:56:02,000
Now in the last few remaining
minutes, would you mind maybe

981
00:56:02,000 –> 00:56:05,480
just reminding our listeners
about your concert coming up in

982
00:56:05,480 –> 00:56:07,720
Australia?
We do have a portion of our

983
00:56:07,720 –> 00:56:10,320
audience in Australia.
So how can they learn a bit more

984
00:56:10,320 –> 00:56:12,840
about this concert and how can
they purchase tickets most

985
00:56:12,840 –> 00:56:16,960
importantly?
Well, Bach Academy australia.com

986
00:56:16,960 –> 00:56:23,240
dot AU now Academy is spelled
AKADAADEM i.e.

987
00:56:23,240 –> 00:56:26,680
Academy is the place to go and
there are tickets there.

988
00:56:26,680 –> 00:56:31,200
Now I know that a lot of your
audience are in Brisbane and you

989
00:56:31,200 –> 00:56:33,600
are going to be our first stop.
So on Wednesday the 5th of

990
00:56:33,640 –> 00:56:37,800
August have a 7th City
Tabernacle Baptist Church in

991
00:56:37,800 –> 00:56:39,360
Spring Hill is where we’re going
to be.

992
00:56:39,360 –> 00:56:42,840
And then in my beloved hometown
of Newcastle, at the

993
00:56:42,840 –> 00:56:45,680
Conservatorium Concert Hall on
the 7th of August.

994
00:56:46,480 –> 00:56:48,560
Then at Saint James’s Church,
another place that’s got a

995
00:56:48,560 –> 00:56:51,800
special place in my heart, on
Sunday the 9th, and that’s an

996
00:56:51,800 –> 00:56:53,640
early show that’s at 5:00 in the
evening.

997
00:56:54,000 –> 00:56:57,040
Then at the Western Music Centre
in Canberra on Tuesday the 11th.

998
00:56:58,240 –> 00:57:02,960
And finally on in Glenbrook on
the outskirts of Sydney at Saint

999
00:57:02,960 –> 00:57:06,160
Finbar’s Catholic Church on
Sunday, August 16.

1000
00:57:06,200 –> 00:57:11,040
I’m also giving a recital with
Erin Helliard from Pinchcard

1001
00:57:11,040 –> 00:57:12,680
Opera, the IST director of
Pinchcard Opera.

1002
00:57:13,040 –> 00:57:16,920
Erin and I are delighted to be
giving a recital of some of our

1003
00:57:16,920 –> 00:57:20,080
favourite pieces of Heiden and
Schubert at the Newcastle Music

1004
00:57:20,080 –> 00:57:22,600
Festival.
That’ll be on Saturday the 15th

1005
00:57:22,680 –> 00:57:24,640
of August at 3:00 in the
afternoon.

1006
00:57:25,640 –> 00:57:28,600
And Miriam will allow a
shameless plug for yourself.

1007
00:57:29,000 –> 00:57:31,800
So if the listeners want to get
to know you a little bit better,

1008
00:57:31,960 –> 00:57:33,800
where can they find more
information?

1009
00:57:33,800 –> 00:57:35,120
Or some of your recordings
maybe?

1010
00:57:35,880 –> 00:57:38,480
Oh, absolutely.
Well, as my my daughters would

1011
00:57:38,480 –> 00:57:45,080
tell you that you need to look
me up on YouTube, but yeah, I, I

1012
00:57:45,120 –> 00:57:48,040
I have the Instagram handle at
Miriam Soprano.

1013
00:57:48,080 –> 00:57:53,160
Miri AM Miriam Soprano.
And that is where you’ll see

1014
00:57:53,160 –> 00:57:57,760
content of my dog mostly and be
walking around Windsor because

1015
00:57:57,800 –> 00:58:00,600
walking the dog, obviously I
absolutely love being outside.

1016
00:58:01,200 –> 00:58:05,520
So yeah, you’ll see a lot of
trees, but the the other place

1017
00:58:05,520 –> 00:58:07,440
that you you can find out the
information that is on my

1018
00:58:07,480 –> 00:58:11,360
website whichismiriamallen.com.
Well, thanks so much for being

1019
00:58:11,360 –> 00:58:13,440
on the show this afternoon,
Miriam.

1020
00:58:14,440 –> 00:58:17,040
Thank you.
And if you’ve enjoyed listening

1021
00:58:17,040 –> 00:58:19,200
to this episode of Meet the
Musicians, don’t forget to

1022
00:58:19,200 –> 00:58:22,440
follow us on Spotify.
You can also hear this podcast

1023
00:58:22,440 –> 00:58:25,640
on Apple Podcasts, and you’ll
find us on Facebook and

1024
00:58:25,640 –> 00:58:28,000
Instagram.
Until then, keep practising,

1025
00:58:28,000 –> 00:58:30,480
keep performing, but most
importantly, keep creating.

1026
00:58:30,800 –> 00:58:31,280
Bye now.